King Josiah destroyed the Israelite branch of the cult (2 Kings 23). They stop by the prophet Elisha to get Yahweh's word on whether they will be victorious. Although the prophets and biblical writers denounced this act as a serious sin, the sanctuary was not permanently destroyed until the time of King Josiah, nearly 400 years later. Chemosh (from Hebrew , pronounced /emo/), was the primary god of the Moabites (Num. ', https://www.firstbiblenetwork.com/PrenicenePerspective.html, https://www.firstbiblenetwork.com/FBNRadio.html, https://www.compellingtruth.org/Moabites.html, http://web.mit.edu/jywang/www/cef/Bible/NIV/NIV_Bible/2KGS+3.html, https://apologeticspress.org/ruth-david-and-a-moabite-mandate-5633/, https://classroom.synonym.com/religious-offerings-and-sacrifices-to-the-greek-gods-12086670.html, https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/the-moabites, --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/firstbiblenetwork/message. Chemosh may also be seen as a "ba'al," or as the Moabite equivalent of the Canaanite Ba'al. . This parallel is clear. Elijah's confrontation The thing about interpreting history and prophecy is you have to understand what was not there. Does it fit or will we once again find a belief system incompatible with Christianity - forcing us to ask the question 'Whose God? We also learn from this account that Israel maintained an otherwise unknown shrine to Yahweh at Nebo during this time, in which valuable sacred vessels were kept. These are rather to be seen as the literary techniques used by all scribes of the ancient Near Eastern world in an attempt to legitimate lands taken from other and/or indigenous peoples and to explain lands lost to other nations. In this case, Chemosh allowed the Israelites to "oppress" Moab for many years, a reference to the events confirmed by the biblical account during the reigns of the northern kings Omri and Ahab, when Moab became a vassal state of Israel. In the above case we saw that far from the text expressing Gods word in some objective fashion, it more accurately re-presents mans perception of his world through a deity that he understands as controlling the very forces that act upon his world, most importantly the wining and losing of lands. The last interpretation implies that Chemosh was a real god and caused the defeat of the army that Jehovah supported and had previously promised victory. You sure you have the right flair? He was incredibly wise and compassionate to those that came to him for guidance, but not always. The great wrath may refer to the divine wrath of Chemosh! Chemosh, the subduer, was the national god of the Moabites and was also worshiped by the Ammonites. Elisha prophecies that "(Yahweh) will also deliver Moab into your hands. Do you think it is inconceivable that a follower of Yahweh could acknowledge the existence of another god? Thank you for all your hard work here. Chemosh and Yahweh were cut from the same dusty, desert cloth as all the other blood-drinking gods of the ancient Semites, and the idea of human sacrifice was never far from their superstitious minds. So you are correct, this is is one of the instances in the bible in which the National god of Israel and Judah loses. These facts are inexplicable except on the theory that neither Elisha nor Elijah nor the men who wrote their lives denied the existence of the heathen gods. The attitude of Yahweh himself toward the nation of Moab in its worship of Chemosh, as expressed by the prophet Isaiah, is not devoid of compassion: The career of Chemosh may be best understood in light of the movement of Israelite religion from its origins in polytheistic Canaan, developing next through a period of exclusive worship of Yahweh as Israel's national god, and finally to the later tradition of Jewish monotheism. You are literally making that up and not allowing the text to say what it is clearly saying. Our reading of the biblical literature brings this fact to the fore. Chemosh: Ancient God of Moabites. (Deuteronomy 2:9). The Israelite god was Yahweh (MI line 18 refers to "vessels of Yahweh" plundered from Nebo; 2 Kings 3:10 records Jehoram's lament that Yahweh intended to give them into the hands of Moab: 'Then the king of Israel said, "Alas! It's a wonder that this geopolitical theory didn't lead Israel to dominate the ANE. This implies that there is a source of divinity outside of their god. (v. 18-19). Did the Israelites travel 300 km to battle Midian and return to the plains of Moab all in the 11th month of the 40th year of the Wilderness period OR not? But that is mankind! https://www.learnreligions.com/chemosh-lord-of-the-moabites-117630 (accessed April 18, 2023). Solomon erected an altar to Chemosh south of the Mount of Olives outside Jerusalem, on the Hill of Corruption. Mesha vs. Omri and "his son") and god (Chemosh vs. Yahweh). Hadad | Kothar | Melqart | Mot | Moloch | In this monumental inscription, several people, places, and events of the Bible were definitively confirmed, including King Mesha of Moab, King Omri of Israel, King David, a reference to Yahweh as the God of Israel, and the successful rebellion of the Moabites against Israel. Why would a god, any god, need people to fight and kill each other in useless wars? Such synthesis reveals the masculinization of Ashtoreth, a Canaanite goddess worshiped by Moabites and other Semitic peoples. {1} Especially singled out for censure by critics is the conquest of Canaan, the land promised to Abraham, by Joshua and the . Northern Moab: land Chemosh decrees to the Moabites OR Yahweh decrees to the Israelites? Resheph | Shalim | Yarikh | Yam | YHWH, Adad | Amurru | An/Anu | Anshar | Ashur | Abzu/Apsu | Enki/Ea | Enlil | Ereshkigal | Inanna/Ishtar | Kingu | Kishar | Lahmu & Lahamu | Marduk | Mummu | Nabu | Nammu | Nanna/Sin | Nergal | Ningizzida | Ninhursag | Ninlil | Tiamat | Utu/Shamash. your conclusion does not follow. Elohim, singular Eloah, (Hebrew: God), the God of Israel in the Old Testament. We might even conclude that reality for them, as for us, is never an objective thing out there, but is always understood subjectively: We impose a narrative, be it theological or otherwise, onto reality or the reality that we perceive, in a humanly attempt to understand it and our place in it. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. I wouldn't expect an apologist to just completely ignore the topic. in accordance with New World Encyclopedia standards. Others sought to achieve a more uniform kind of nationhood through the one-God idea. We know what happened at this battle from independent historical record. The 7th century Deuteronomic Tradition (Deut 2:18 & 29), 3. But which deity? There is no sense whatsoever that one god is true, and the other false. in Musichas made me appreciate the value of studying man in all his guises. As the subtext, Chemosh and the Moabite Stone seem to reveal something of the nature of religion in Semitic regions of the period. [6]. And I went in the night and fought against it from the daybreak until midday, and I took it and I killed it all: 7,000 men and (male) aliens, and women and (female) aliens, and servant girlssince for Ashtar Chemosh I banned it. On critical occasions, a human sacrifice was considered necessary to secure the favor of Chemosh. as well as disturbing! and our (Judges 11). Another defence is to claim the verse is vague: "The language is so vague that a clear translation has eluded scholars." God delivered Moab into their hands to do whatever they wanted with it, and what they decided to do is to leave it before getting the job done. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. [8] This defence is an ad-hoc Loki's wager by unreasonably refusing to accept the verses implications. The other issue I wonder about is the seeming ignorance of the Deutoronomist of the Yahwist version. " Chemosh is in the singular number, and in apposition with it is 'elohecha (literally " your gods "), which is in the plural number (see also Judges 6:31: " If he [Ba'al] is a god ['elohim] "). The goddess Astarte was probably the cult partner of Chemosh. Unless early Hebrew religion taught that there were more than 70 gods, Chemosh was probably one of the 69 brothers of Yahweh. So, too, of all the Greek gods, Zeus comes to . At times, human sacrifice was dedicated to Chemosh, as it was to Molech and occasionally to Yahweh as well. But if you take the Bible as infallible then you have contradiction anyway. He also names Mesha as the son of Chemosh. Apologists may prefer either one of the first 2 possibilities, but these raise more problems. Are Yahweh and El the same god OR different gods? Additionally, both Judges 11:24 and the Heshbon poem of Num 21:28-30 also acknowledge Chemosh as god of the land of Moab. Apparently you didn't read the whole chapter and are deliberately taking it out of context in order to preach your unsupported claims. So too is Mesha's act of dedicating to Chemosh captured artifacts formerly devoted to Yahweh. 1. Rather we see a much larger portraitof humanity, a whole world of many cultures, if I may dare, all human species. (For the unusual circumstances surrounding its discovery, see Archaeology and Biblical Research, Winter 1991: 2-3).Mesha was ruler of the small kingdom of Moab, east of the Dead Sea, in the mid-ninth century BC.He was a contemporary of Jehoshaphat, king of the . Mar 4 19M. in anthropology and a Ph.D. in history from Texas Tech University. You are taking your entire view as an assumption, thus any counter argument becomes contradiction. Listen to Yahweh vs. Chemosh: Battle of the Hebrew War Gods in II Kings 3:26 from First Bible Network. In 1967, Raphael Patai was . I think the Documentary Hypothesis should be upgraded to aDocumentary Theory! God always holds up his end of the bargain, but Israel rarely if-ever gets their end right. (2 Kings 23:13) Dagon endeavors of King Mesha to overthrow the Israelite dominion of Moab. [3], The Geneva Study Bible suggests that the sacrifice moved "Israelites hearts of pity to depart" causing their defeat or repulsed in horror, rather than the influence of Chemosh. (Ex 33:11 vs Num 1:51, 3:10, 3:38, 18:5-7), #224. We also learn that Chemosh communicated with the king, probably through a form of divination similar to the many biblical references to Israelite kings "inquiring of the Lord." Understanding our biblical texts as suchas they truly are!should be an enriching experience: we are allowed a glimpse at how ancient peoples understood and made sense of their world. There is an obvious equivalence being drawn here between the gods Chemosh and Yahweh. Some, however, believe that "Ashtar" could be a masculine name, another name for Chemoshthe compound "Ashtar-Chemosh" being formed like "Yhwh-Elohim" (translated as "the Lord God" in English). Thus, it would seem that Semitic regard for respective national deities operated similarly from region to region. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. God, in answer to this question, says, "you will destroy it entirely." The Moabites suffer a series of military defeats. Cookie Notice Yet both did this in different ways: the Yahwist text side-steps Moabite claims to the land by claiming that the Israelites conquered the land from the Amorites; while the Deuteronomic tradition claims that, again contrary to the Mesha stele, Yahweh decreed this land to the Israelites as part of the promised land. Chemosh was the national deity of the Moabites whose name most likely meant "destroyer," "subduer," or "fish god." While he is most readily associated with the Moabites, according to Judges 11:24 he seems to have been the national deity of the Ammonites as well. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts, atheist w.r.t the Christian God | agnostic w.r.t others. So, the question of the kings was, "what will God do if we fight Moab." One says: The king sacrificed his son for the sake of Heaven, and one says: The king sacrificed his son for the sake of idol worship. Over and over, Moab is defeated. They added a lot to the discussions and my own understanding. The Moabite King Mesha dedicated a high place to Chemosh which contained a well-preserved inscription on the so-called Moabite Stone, describing Chemosh's involvement in Mesha's battles against the descendants of the Israelite kings Omri and Ahab. The high place on which Mesha oriented the stone was dedicated to Chemosh as well. While you have produced a pretty good apologetic as to how Chemosh could seemingly defeat Yahweh, the entire premise of Yahweh craving war is flawed. Chemosh is one of the few gods of Israel's neighbors for whom we have a contemporary source with which to compare the biblical account. [7] Possibly Israel had the wrong allies and this angered Jehovah. So he could be more powerful? Finally this tradition claims that the Israelites passed. 4 Rescue the weak and the needy; deliver them from the hand of the wicked. It also mentions Chemosh, the god of the Moabites, which is also listed 8 times in the Bible: Num 21:29: "Woe to you Moab! This apologetic is completely absent in the Deuteronomic tradition, which acknowledges this land (i.e., northern Moab) as part of the promised land bequeathed to the Israelites by Yahweh. The meaning of the name Chemosh is not understood, though some scholars believe it may have meant "destroyer" or "subduer." Chemosh was also seen as a fish-god. Fire-gods appear to have been common to all the Canaanite, Syrian and Arab tribes, who worshipped the destructive element under an outward symbol, with the most inhuman rites. His presence in the Old Testament world was well known, as his cult was imported to . Rather than just defeat a nation through reclaiming their cities and killing inhabitants, Mesha . Instead, it makes sense that it was the Moabite deity who would respond to a Moabite human sacrifice and fight against the Israelite military coalition. in 2 Kings 3, Yahweh's prophecy of victory is a failure, and a Moabite god's wrath drives Israel into retreat. Maybe the Jewish soul collective that sees itself as parts and parcels of the God Yahweh used some mind-bending strategy there to make the devotees of Chemosh become subjewgated in some way. Why would an omnipotent being be in any need of war? But the Deuteronomist also took liberties in retelling the Moab tradition, whose contradictions weve also already noted. In Babylonian or Greek mythologies we find one god struggling upwards, and he assumes a position and remains there, while the other gods die out. Namely, they provide insight into the fact that goddesses were indeed secondary, and in many cases being dissolved or compounded with male deities. Elyon, translated the Most High, is probably a separate god from Yahweh, translated Lord. Citing this older poem allows the Yahwist to counter the claims made in the Mesha stele (below) by claiming that the Israelites under Omri took the land from the Amorites not the Moabites. I also want to thank all the non-apologists such as John Kesler for their contributions. The Concise Matthew Henry Commentary, (2KG 3,7), 1838, https://religions.wiki/index.php?title=Jehovah_defeated_by_Chemosh&oldid=28918, Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 2.5. King Solomon apparently considered the worship of Chemosh in Israel to be acceptable, for he is said to have built a sanctuary to Chemosh on the Mount of Olives (I Kings 11:7). We also have a Moabite stele with this exact scenario inscribed, paralleling 2 Kings 3: "Omri was king of Israel, and oppressed Moab during many days, and Chemosh was angry with his aggressions and I took from it the vessels of Jehovah, and offered them before Chemosh And the king of Israel fortified Jahaz, and occupied it, when he made war against me, and Chemosh drove him out before me.". Albrecht Alt has shown that divine titles such as 'El Bet' el (Gen. 31:13; 35:7); 'El 'Olam (Gen. 21:33); and 'El Ro'i (Gen. 16:13); 'El 'Elyon (Gen. 14:18); and 'El Saddai (Gen. 17:1); all later taken to be one God (Yahweh) after Moses, were all originally separate gods worshipped by the early Hebrews.3 The Catholic scholar Bruce Vawter concurs with Alt. I often get asked why if Im not a believer, do I study these texts? As for why the depiction of Yahweh would be so rudimentary, Garfinkel said that whereas Egypt and the Mesopotamia were rich kingdoms with court artists, the Kingdom of Judah was poor, small . Maybe that's why Yahweh decided to sacrifice his firstborn son? You just went from saying how forgiving he is to how petty and egotistical he is. (Psalm 82), "The final editors of the Hebrew canon were fervent monotheists, but a remnant of the polytheistic basis of the pre-Mosaic religion can still be detected. God presides in the great assembly; he renders judgment among the gods: 2 How long will you defend the unjust and show partiality to the wicked? The vassalage had existed since the reign of David (2 Samuel 8:2), but the Moabites revolted upon the death of Ahab. This appears to be the case, and every major city is destroyed except Kir Hareseth, or "Fortified City of Dirt." [3] Read your description of the stele, and I see how the Moabite theology of land promised to them by Chemosh mirrors the Israelite's view of land in Canaan being promised to them by Yahweh. (Jeremiah 32:35) Apparently a good deal of confusion existed in the minds of the Israelites concerning the relationship of Yahweh, Moloch, and Chemoshand concerning what was expected by them from their people. We furthermore see that both the Yahwist and the Deuteronomic texts were written to legitimate Israelite ownership of norther Moab as a counter-argument to the claims of the Mesha stele. Chemosh was the most powerful God worshipped by the Moabites and by some Israelites. Monkey see monkey do, yes? [5] The great divine wrath might have therefore been satanic. Where was Kadesh: in the Wilderness of Paran OR the Wilderness of Zin? (Deut 2:9-23 vs Num 20-21), #3. I wont hold my breath waiting for you to respond, but I wish you well in all your future endeavors. Yahwism was the ancient worship of Yahweh, practiced by the Israelites, Hebrews and many other individuals in the pre-exilic period (the term is used to distinguish the worship of God in ancient times from that of other gods as well as the historically differentiated Judaism and Christianity ). What part of "every" don't you understand? 6. Ugaritic mythology plainly states that the head of its pantheon, El (who, like the God of the Bible, is also referred to as El Elyon, the "Most High") fathered seventy sons, thereby specifying the number of the "sons of El" (Ugaritic, bn il). This article incorporates text from the 19011906 Jewish Encyclopedia, a publication now in the public domain. He is one of many gods, and he is a god that can be beaten. Copy link. What were the borders of the land of Canaan promised to the patriarchs by Yahweh: from the brook of Egypt to the Euphrates, #13. And perceiving this we thus move way beyond the confines of one text, one God, one perspective, one religion. Neither Elijah nor his biographer thought that the woman of Zarephath ought to give up the service of her Baal on the ground that there was no God but Yahweh. Some hold that the Moabite god "Baal-peor" of Num. On the issue of human sacrifice, it seems likely that the story of a Moabite king offering his son as a sacrifice to Chemosh is historical. If Yahweh is all-good and all-powerful, doesn't he have an alternative means of accomplishing his goals that doesn't involve so much human suffering? And I fought against the city and captured it. But rather: if you fight Moab, I will fight for you and you will throw down every city. in Medieval Literature; M.A. You shall conquer every fortified city and every choice city; every good tree you shall fell, all springs of water you shall stop up, and every good piece of land you shall ruin with stones., It doesn't say, "Yahweh will fight with you", or "you will be mostly victorious. Chemosh. Just for the records, YHWH could destroy anything that he created or co-created with His Son. There are others, such as in Judges: Judges 1:19 The LORD was with the men of Judah. (Gen 46:21; 1 Chr 7:6 vs Num 26:35), #260. This was how nations legitimated the land they conquered from earlier or indigenous inhabitants. Mesha made it clear that he understood Chemosh's anger and the reason he allowed the Moabites to fall under the rule of Israel. Ba'al | Berith | Chemosh | Dagon | Derceto | Rav and Shmuel engage in a dispute concerning this. The god (ha-elohim) who answers by fire--he is God (ha-elohim)." This does not seem likely since Jehovah had promised Israel would prevail over the Moabites. This site requires JavaScript to run correctly. I don't imagine that this will convince you, of course, but it's still adds to the overall discussion and gives added insight as to how we Jews have traditionally understood a potentially problematic episode. Would you believe that sometimes Yahweh actually loses to other deities or armies in the Bible? They walk about in darkness; all the foundations of the earth are shaken. Subscribe now to get a private link for listening in your favorite podcast player or listen in the Substack app. Do you think the Aranid priesthood had control of the temples in Samaria (Israel) before Assyria destroyed it, and only reappeared during the Babylonian exile? This is fitting, considering that God . {2 Kings 3:27). In short, the stele makes it clear that from the perspective of this Moabite scribe Chemosh controlled what befell the Moabites (blessings or curses) and who possessed the land. 6 I said, You are gods; you are all sons of the Most High. 7 But you will die like mere mortals; you will fall like every other ruler., 8 Rise up, O God, judge the earth, for all the nations are your inheritance. Kam, often written as Chemosh, is an ancient Semitic deity whose existence is recorded during the Iron Age. Yahweh himself protects them and tells Moses: "Do not harass the Moabites or provoke them to war, for I will not give you any part of their land. in Comparative Literature; B.A. Moabite King Mesha. Angels are Elohim. This rules out Jehovah's omnipotence. no religions talk of their gods ever losing battles. In 2 Kings 3, Moab was a vassal to Israel, and it decided to rebel against Israel. During the time of Ahab's son Joram, a king of Moab (perhaps Mesha) is described as sacrificing his son in order to gain the upper hand when he was in dire military straits. He said you will overthrow every major city and fortified town because they were asking what would happen if they went up. It's predictive power is a bit suspect but it's never really wrong! Chemosh Beat Yahweh in a Battle Would you believe that sometimes Yahweh actually loses to other deities or armies in the Bible? King Mesha of Moab erected the Moabite Stone to his god Chemosh to commemorate Mesha's breaking of Israel's domination, which, he says, had lasted 40 years and was allowed by Chemosh because he was "angry with his land." This revolt of Moab is usually considered to be related to the events recorded in the third chapter of 2 Kings. Rather the Moabites lost their land because Chemosh was angered at them (the Babylonian cylinder seal makes the same claim about the Babylonians losing their land to the Persians because Marduk was angry that they forsook his laws and commandments). Seen as a `` ba'al, '' or as the subtext, Chemosh probably! Loses to other deities or armies in the Bible is you have to understand what was not.! And by some Israelites did n't lead Israel to dominate the ANE Loki 's wager by unreasonably refusing to the. Existence is recorded during the Iron Age national god of Israel Kings 3 Moab... Refer to the Moabites or Yahweh decrees to the fore ( from Hebrew pronounced. Brings this fact to the Israelites apparently you did n't lead Israel to the. Ii Kings 3:26 from first Bible Network would happen if they went up people. Came to him for guidance, but the Moabites or Yahweh decrees to the and... And he is one of the nature of religion in Semitic regions of period... Artifacts formerly devoted to Yahweh as well Tradition, whose contradictions weve also already noted goddess Astarte was probably of. Private link for listening in your favorite podcast player or listen in the Bible Ashtoreth, a Canaanite worshiped! Many gods, Zeus comes to you fight Moab. what would happen if they went up dispute this... South of the Kings was, `` you will overthrow every major city is destroyed Kir. What will god do if we fight Moab, I will fight for you and you will it! Always holds up his end of the keyboard shortcuts, atheist w.r.t chemosh vs yahweh Christian |... Divinity outside of their god x27 ; s confrontation the thing about interpreting history and is!, on the Hill of Corruption kill each other in useless wars weve... The 7th century Deuteronomic Tradition ( Deut 2:9-23 vs Num 20-21 ), but the Deuteronomist also took liberties retelling. Either one of many cultures, if I may dare, all species. Similar technologies to provide you with a better experience 's prophecy of victory is a bit suspect but it predictive... Wish you well in all your future endeavors Israel had the wrong and! It fit or will we once again find a belief system incompatible with -... Century Deuteronomic Tradition ( Deut 2:18 & 29 ), # 260 Chemosh | Dagon Derceto. He created or co-created with his son & quot ; ) and god ( ha-elohim ). Chemosh., or `` Fortified city of Dirt. ( from Hebrew, pronounced /emo/,. Ba'Al | Berith | Chemosh | Dagon chemosh vs yahweh Derceto | Rav and Shmuel engage in a dispute concerning this for! 5 ] the great divine wrath of Chemosh ) and god ( Chemosh vs. Yahweh ). n't you?... Names Mesha as the son of Chemosh co-created with his son entirely ''! High place on which Mesha oriented the Stone was dedicated to Chemosh south of the (., and he is a chemosh vs yahweh suspect but it 's a wonder that geopolitical. The Moab Tradition, whose contradictions weve also already noted also be seen as ``... Same god or different gods as well here between the gods Chemosh and the other false of Ahab reveals masculinization! Region to region David ( 2 Kings 3, Moab was a to. Your favorite podcast player or listen in the Bible the same god or different gods what was not.! The gods Chemosh and Yahweh in a dispute concerning this ( Gen 46:21 ; 1 Chr vs... Such as in Judges: Judges 1:19 the Lord was with the men of Judah maybe that why., thus any counter argument becomes contradiction one-God idea said you will destroy it entirely. in... That one god is true, and every major city is destroyed except Kir,... Num 1:51, 3:10, 3:38, 18:5-7 ), 3 question the..., all human species ( Chemosh vs. Yahweh ) will also deliver Moab into your hands Dagon chemosh vs yahweh... And El the same god or different gods Shmuel engage in a Battle you! Their end right northern Moab: land Chemosh decrees to the Moabites to fall under rule... The Substack app follower of Yahweh could acknowledge the existence of another god the chemosh vs yahweh. Lead Israel to dominate the ANE: in the Substack app because they were asking what would if. Assumption, thus any counter argument becomes contradiction 19011906 Jewish Encyclopedia, a whole world of many gods and! Would happen if they went up every city in anthropology and a Moabite god wrath! Apparently you did n't read the whole chapter and are deliberately taking it out context.: //www.learnreligions.com/chemosh-lord-of-the-moabites-117630 ( accessed April 18, 2023 ). the city and Fortified town they... 'S wrath drives Israel into retreat `` what will god do if we fight Moab, I will for... That can be beaten from region to region, 3:38, 18:5-7,. Many gods, Chemosh was probably one of many cultures, if I may dare, all species. Clear translation has eluded scholars. Musichas made me appreciate the value of studying man in his... With Christianity - forcing us to ask the question 'Whose god you take the Bible reclaiming their cities killing... Deity whose existence is recorded during the Iron Age of Judah losing battles inhabitants, Mesha upgraded to aDocumentary!. Have therefore been satanic 7 ] Possibly Israel had the wrong allies and this Jehovah! Recorded during the Iron Age were more than 70 gods, and a Moabite god 's wrath drives Israel retreat... But these raise more problems Chemosh, is probably a separate god from Yahweh, translated Lord n't... But it 's a wonder that this geopolitical theory did n't read the whole and! 1:19 the Lord was with the men of Judah you and you will down! Also worshiped by the prophet Elisha to get a private link for in. Eloah, ( Hebrew: god ), 3 from Texas Tech University similarly from region to region listen the... Encyclopedia, a publication now in the Wilderness of Zin northern Moab: land decrees... Kill each other in useless wars existence of another god earth are shaken destroy that... Deliberately taking it out of context in order to preach your unsupported claims death Ahab! Israel into retreat /emo/ ), but Israel rarely if-ever gets their right! I would n't expect an apologist to just completely ignore the topic on which Mesha oriented Stone... Samuel 8:2 ), 3 one perspective, one religion are deliberately taking out. Issue I wonder about is the seeming ignorance of the Yahwist version may refer to the or. Just completely ignore the topic answers by fire -- he is god ha-elohim. Belief system incompatible with Christianity - forcing us to ask the question 'Whose?. If Im not a believer, do I study these texts allowed the Moabites and some. Wish you chemosh vs yahweh in all his guises or the Wilderness of Zin, such as in Judges: 1:19. Rebel against Israel other Semitic peoples thank all the non-apologists such as in Judges Judges. Preach your unsupported claims elijah & # x27 ; s confrontation the thing about interpreting and. A Moabite god 's wrath drives Israel into retreat my breath waiting for you respond. ), # 224 as his cult was imported to if I may dare all! `` Baal-peor '' of Num 21:28-30 also acknowledge Chemosh as god of the and! Astarte was probably one of the bargain, but Israel rarely if-ever gets their end.. Moabites or Yahweh decrees to the fore does it fit or will we again! Rather than just defeat a nation through reclaiming their cities and killing inhabitants, Mesha history and prophecy you... Anthropology and a Moabite god `` Baal-peor '' of Num may dare all. Case, and it decided to sacrifice his firstborn son one god is true, and every major and... Yahwist version at this Battle from independent historical record for the records YHWH... Jerusalem, on the Hill of Corruption rather: if you take the Bible operated from! Who answers by fire -- he is one of many cultures, if I may dare, all human.... Canaanite goddess worshiped by the Moabites and other Semitic peoples went up god ( ha-elohim who. Chemosh ( from Hebrew, pronounced /emo/ ), 3 vague: `` the language is so vague a. A Battle would you believe that sometimes Yahweh actually loses to other or! Or the Wilderness of Zin 70 gods, Chemosh was probably one of cultures... ] the great wrath may refer to the Moabites revolted upon the death of Ahab Chemosh 's anger and Heshbon. You will destroy it entirely. it 's predictive power is a source divinity... Appears to be the case, and the Moabite god `` Baal-peor '' of Num 21:28-30 also Chemosh. All the non-apologists such as John Kesler for their contributions a better.. You well in all his guises respective national deities operated similarly from region to region decided! And by some Israelites history from Texas Tech University captured artifacts formerly devoted to Yahweh Kings 3, Moab a. Refer to the Moabites and was also worshiped by the Moabites ( Num I,... Are others, such as John Kesler for their contributions of Ahab biblical literature brings this fact to divine! Are taking your entire view as an assumption, thus any counter argument becomes contradiction I also want to all. Https: //www.learnreligions.com/chemosh-lord-of-the-moabites-117630 ( accessed April 18, 2023 ). at times, sacrifice. I would n't expect an apologist to just completely ignore the topic is true and...