But I do think that it's appropriate that a fishing game agency would recognize verifiable proof if they could. I'm sorry go ahead you're on the air. It's got a a smudge of black and bobcats and links just don't have that we don't have any other cards. We did a short segment about mountain lion sightings earlier this year and and after which I was sent a photo and also a video recording that was mostly just audio because it was so dark the photo just a quick reverse Google image search you can put images online and see where else where else they've been posted revealed that the photo had been taking out taken out in Wyoming and has been used you know hundreds of times to claim and the person who sent it to me said it had been taken New Hampshire. We'd love to have you in the queue. And those are not the same things. But if you were to get Western dispersing mountain lions just would just sort of expanding into New Hampshire. Which brings us to the next question, what are the odds that some of these reported sightings (which, when I posted about this on twitter, I immediately started to get as well) are actually people seeing a mountain lion? New Hampshire Fish and Game Department says there's no proof. If so that's for us as an agency. He writes As a farmer I come across many outdoorsman looking to hunt our property had a conversation with one who believed very strongly that we had mountain lions in New Hampshire. And I just said I saw I saw they from behind the shoulder all the way past the long tail. We live around Cold Springs Campground and it was undeniably a mountain lion. Join as a sustainer and support independent local news for your community. (Cue the X-Files music: The Government is denying the cougars exist!) This decision was primarily for nerdy phylogeny reasons, though, because the eastern cougar probably never existed. Pat do they typically just move around a lot. Which which I think Pat and I have both experienced. Now that to me seemed to indicate that they had done the secondary workup that in my opinion proved the existence of probably a disperse or possibly from South Dakota like the one in 2011. So that that's more or less I think why I'm here and why I got into this in nineteen ninety nine I found a what appeared to be a print of a mountain lion and that was in the Osprey mountains and I thought well OK that's that's a print. It's bigger but bigger and better world. And there's there's no evidence of that cat's movement in that entire you know 12 hundred miles stretch of its journey. He says when youve got a mountain lion in town, its kinda obvious. Since then, there have been a handful of confirmed mountain. And why would they what. Caller: Oh hi. Peter Biello: This is the exchange on an PR. There's never, ever, ever, ever been a documented case of a black mountain lion. They get a lot of media attention but compared to the the amount of times that a mountain lion could attack a person but doesn't because they don't typically view us as prey. Peter Biello: When did you allegedly see a mountain lion. And Rick van de Poll naturalist and founder of ecosystem management consultants of New England. This is the exchange. But are there mountain lions living in New Hampshire? So hey, just me shooting from the hip, maybe there are a couple mountain lions skulking about. As far as I could tell there was a positive DNA sequence coming from the scat sample Patrick. Peter Biello: Well I want to ask Patrick about one of these stories a few years ago you had a story about someone who claimed to. Peter Biello: Well John thanks very much for the story really appreciate it. Sam Evans-Brown: One in fact Helena silver in that sort of tome that Rick van de Poll read from at the beginning is she. In Vermont, it was 1881. Peter Biello: And Carl before you continue I think Patrick Tate just give me a second. So we tossed these terms around but really the term subspecies has been sort of redefined in our lifetimes. Patrick Tate: So one thing I'd say is DNA would definitely identify an animal animal's Mark line or not. OK. Rick van de Poll: Rick and I would add that if a mountain lion male takes up residence and successfully finds a female as pets there's gonna be a lot more evidence there will be like deer carcasses up in trees and territorial marking and claw marks and tracks and it you know dispersal is gonna be very tough to see or observed but residential parrots a totally different story. PublishedNovember 16, 2018 at 6:16 AM EST. Known to exist in the state for over well over a hundred years. Thank you very much for that story really appreciate it. I think that you probably are. So for those reasons I don't believe the standards are too high the amount of game cameras out on the landscape to record images department alone through contracts had over 150 throughout the state biologists go through various deer yards throughout the year. Which goes back to the Connecticut Connecticut cat and what not. Osga's group of volunteers sent hair samples. Love hearing these stories. In Vermont, it was 1881. Thanks also to Rick van de Poll naturalist and founder of ecosystem management consultants of New England and Sam Evans Brown host of an HP podcast outside in about the natural world and how we use it. Give today. Caller: Hi. Peter Biello: We mentioned that the eastern cougar and the Western cougar are they were separate eastern cougar believed to be extinct. I mean so what what is the practical change that it would bring to New Hampshire if any. So there is definitely no downward pressure by anyone. If youve got photo trap evidence of a Mountain Lion, send it in, and we'll send it along to the appropriate state or federal agency! I've collected scat samples I've got several in my collection. Peter Biello: This is the exchange on an HD PR fine Peter Biello and today we're talking with folks who can tell us about the mysterious elusive mountain line and whether or not it is actually here in New Hampshire. I live pretty much on the town line of Greenfield just a couple of miles down in the Greenfield. They're very loyal to what the handler which makes them very dangerous to everyone else. Had great trees behind it beautiful ferns on the ground so it brought me down on the site and the ferns on the ground matched. The evidence for the 1874 cougar is so hard that it's held in a display case in the State Museum of . Right. Id like to hazard the explanation that we really, really want to see a mountain lion. So I would put this in the category of sort of like shark attacks right. But having read a bit of information about his cougar there are a darker subspecies. Mountain Lions are a mythical creature in New Hampshire with strong feelings on both sides of the question: are there Mountain Lions in New Hampshire? So they're not afraid of humans and they'll show up like a regular housecat. Here it is. The DNA the DNA that they were able to pull from the cat suggested that it was a dispersed mountain lion that came. Sam. And so maybe before I go to you recommend I ask you Patrick Tate is the standard too high. Well within there. What do you think that. Really appreciate you guys being here as well. Thanks for a great thanks. And sometimes I've seen pictures of those where it's the question is What is that is that a bobcat. And I have to use that word allegedly because there is so much dispute about what people see and what they actually see. And boy it was big it had to be at least 200 pounds the thing was you and and it just made a little bit of noise and it was gone. Using DNA and physical evidence, state environmental officials said they determined that the animal . I mean it wasn't your idea. But if people are still seeing mountain lions, why is the state and federal government seeking to COVER IT UP!? We speculate they dont want us to screw up tourism we dont know whats going on. The last known mountain lion killed in New Hampshire is displayed at the Woodman Museum in Dover. Peter Biello: Worth mentioning if we're scaring anybody question a mysterious mountain lions lurking perhaps in someone's backyard. Can you tell us about that story. We send out DNA samples to the U.S. Forest Service Rocky Mountain Research Station. Peter Biello: Mm hmm. Mountain Lion report and as a biologist for the state that's a situation where if he said to me what did I see. Yes and you want to share what you learned. Peter Biello: Thank you for sharing that. There are corollaries in other states. And the second question is this a behavior mountain lions exhibit. So I've been convinced the whole time that I saw a big cougar plume or whatever you want to call it standing there in the road in Greenfield. And you know all that. Peter Biello: Yeah well what do you think Pat is. Sam Evans-Brown: Pretty well I was going to say it is nice to hear about how to identify the facial markings but probably I'd being a to identify the tracks is probably the more useful useful tool that one can have in their tool box. There are also many unconfirmed sightings. However, as far as I can tell theres no Deep State Conspiracy to cover up a breeding population of cougars in the Granite State. Peter Biello: So Patrick today Fish and Game no downward pressure on you to deny the existence at all costs of mountain lions here in New Hampshire. Good morning guys. Yeah 13 to 15 years ago 13 to 15 years ago. BUT THAT SAID, Id love to be proven wrong. for some excitement. Based on this blurry photo and pawprints, DEEP confirmed it was likely a mountain lion. So here in New Hampshire when a person turns in something that the Department believes is possible mountain lion and believes it should be investigated further. Peter Biello: We at this e-mailed comment from Michael. Thanks very much. Ecosystem Management Consultants of New England, Ask Sam, and recently fielded question about mountain lions, In latest school funding trial, state attorneys argue NH districts' budgets are bloated, Lawmakers, advocates, families in NH react to Biden Admin's proposed Title IX change, Give Back NH: The New England Grassroots Environment Fund, NHs housing crisis is pushing more older adults to seek help, We also hear excerpts from an interview with, Read about the most recent cougar "sightings". Or years or so. There'd be there'd be all sorts of you know basically a lot of hassle required if that were to happen. Patrick Tate New Hampshire Fish and Game Wildlife Biologist thanks very much for being here this morning really appreciate it. Have it reported down in the Keene area. 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. The big cat has been extinct at least the eastern mountain lion has been extinct here since the mid. Rick van de Poll: Well education is the real important thrust of of what all of us do as biologists and Game Managers and to make sure that a things like what Sam was saying that in spite of what you believe the mountain lions will not eat your children they will not steal your pets from your backyard and they will not necessarily be seen by you unless you're extremely lucky. This is a machine-generated transcript, and may contain errors. The nonbelievers are going to say Show us your evidence and show us prove this to us. I mean that so many of them are false sightings we. Now again I don't know that there's anything to that. County road and all of a sudden a big cat jumps out of the woods over a stone wall stood in the middle of the dirt road as I rode towards it. Wes Siler. So hard to know hard to refute if there's no interest in making up a story which many people of course do then I would respond the same way as Pat did. Yes. And today we're talking about the mysterious elusive mountain line with folks who know something about it. Author of The last woman in the forest on Saturday July 13th at 7 p.m. at Warner town hall Warner historical dawg. Patrick Tate: If I could just say one thing. Ive received pictures of dogs at odd angles, says Tate. So before we get to the the the the stories of sightings we're getting a lot of calls. Sam Evans-Brown: Well this might be a good moment to talk about hoaxes. Caller: Oh yeah. So you know until I found those two scats I didn't think that mountain lions were here in the east. The last wild mountain lion in New Hampshire may have been killed in the White Mountains in 1885. Email exchange it an HP fraud org or give us a call 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. A young male cougar weighing about 40 pounds was shot and killed this week near Whiteclay, Nebraska. Yeah I did. There was no sign of it. Information that weed family automotive dot com sunny for today high temperatures low to mid 80s clear tonight overnight lows in the 50s tomorrow sunny highs in the upper 80s. Sue Morse: First and foremost if you have color or if you could see details of color look at the front of the face around the Pumas muzzle the muzzle itself is pure white. Well thanks for sharing. They're the generalists that made it through both the arrival of the Clovis people with their with their spears and then the Europeans with their guns. There's no attraction. Can we go to the site. Patrick Tate: I've from all the situations I've read and learned about wildlife. NHPR is nonprofit and independent. Peter Biello: Listeners give us a call if you have a question or a story of a sighting 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. Let us know your story and share your photos! Sam Evans-Brown has been working for New Hampshire Public Radio since 2010, when he began as a freelancer. Thank you. Peter Biello: We got an e-mail question from Robert in Epsom who asks are sightings or encounters with these big cats less dangerous here where they're passing through than out west where those same mountain lines might be establishing territory Rick. Since then, there have been a handful of confirmed mountain lion sightings in the Northeast, although most have been thought to be escaped captive animals. So I know it's another unconfirmed report but you string enough of these together. Mountain lions leave a lot of sign. What's interesting about Bobcats is here in the Northeast we have some very large bobcats. So they're scary. So I just brought up the bobcat thing because the location is fascinating to me that that that location we have Bobcats existing but that location we have a mountain lion report because it's a developed area and which brings me back to earlier what I had said it's a bouncing ball. Peter Biello: Wow. "There is a very low possibility of seeing them in the. Patrick Tate: So Cougar Mountain Lion katama. And I think a lot of folks would like them to be around. May 23 . The last documented individuals in the entire Northeast were killed in New Brunswick , Canada, in 1932, and Maine in 1938. I didn't see him online. And maybe it's a no holds barred nostalgia for a better world a wild or Fuller world not a world that's constrained by our boundaries and our taxes and our highways. Caller: Well I think Patrick I recognized your name. Think you've seen a mountain lion. So so it is possible in Maine to still to to to have one but you have to be sort of professional handler as it were. A monthly donation of $5 makes a real difference. Just. For me as a person who's handled many bobcats and looked at many pictures Bobcat the White chin Bobcat right off is what comes out to me and then the black the the roughs on our Bobcats we'll have sometimes have black fringes on them. So so they're just a very resilient species and they're pretty they're pretty neat. Caller: So I've been telling this story for five years or so and very few people believe me. Let's look for other evidence. Sunny today high temperatures low to mid 80s it'll be clear tonight overnight lows in the 50s for tomorrow sunshine with high temperatures mid to upper 80s. A 140-pound male mountain lion was hit by a car and killed in 2011 in Milford, Connecticut. Sam Evans-Brown: You know the North America had a number of large predator species when humans first arrived in the continent. We'd be inundated with scouts in the past when newspaper articles have been written about DNA and scouts. There have been several alleged sightings of mountain lions in New Hampshire recently. New Hampshire Public Radio | The trouble with accepting every reported sighting as a confirmed mountain lion is that there are so many mistaken identifications. A trail of DNA evidence collected over the years shows this particular mountain lion had traveled through New York, Michigan, Wisconsin and Minnesota. I mean I that said I've lived out west for nine years. There's no logic for why they'd be listed as an endangered species. Through DNA they approximate area in the United States or North America where I was born. So what I'm getting back is the verifying and confirming of evidence what that was not there. I actually been interviewed a couple of times by reporters and with all due respect for the media you know facts aren't always communicated correctly. I can't tell you what you saw but it sounds like a mountain lion. Let us know your story and share your photos. Give today. We we hear that there is allegedly a government conspiracy to deny the existence of mountain lions here in New Hampshire so I guess a local government conspiracy. Sam Evans-Brown: But I mean the video I had been sent was you know a recording of a animal growling but it was in slow motion and when I asked the person why is this in slow motion the denied that it was so there's a lot of weird stuff that happens in regards to people claiming they've seen they've seen these things. support for an HBO who comes from you our listener Sam from advanced in you a local New Hampshire nonprofit specializing in college student loans and student refinancing options. Caller: And the more I thought about it the color of it it was definitely not a bobcat. The tail leave is a giveaway but not everybody gets to see the tail. SYCAMORE, Ill. (AP) A mountain lion that was struck and killed last weekend along a northern Illinois highway will be analyzed by biologists seeking to uncover the rare animal's origins, state . Theres a project called the Cougar Network that tracks verified sightings, and they are all around us: Massachusetts, Connecticut, Maine, New York and New Brunswick have all had verified sightings over the past 20 years or so. Patrick Tate: Okay. And so so with their limited staff and limited budget that is that is more and more limited every year because you know fewer people are buying hunting and fishing licenses. What kind of animal is that. Rick your thoughts. It doesn't happen as much anymore. Caller: Absolutely. Something along those lines. Patrick Tate: So I agree with what Sam said in part that their ability to go undetected for amount of time but ultimately it was detected. You're on the air. Part II. Listeners give us a call if you'd like. About two years ago I was at the Laconia airport on the way home from the airport and there's a big lake on one side called Lily Pond. If it's just in the middle of a greenfield you can't prove anything. Patrick Tate: Martin Like what about Panther Panther saying animals same animal and like a bit of trivia Guinness Book of World Records says the animal with the most names is in English alone they're supposedly 40 names for Mount lion. I wanted to get your thoughts on the mystique of the mountain lion start with you Rick. Absolutely there are a lot of folks out there who for some reason need to create something that raises a stir and gets the attention of the media etc.. Peter Biello: Rick I believe you did mention that that they do leave carcasses up in the tree from time to time but are there any other species known in New Hampshire to do this on a regular basis. The scientific name for the catamount is Puma concolor. You've got you've got biologists right who are trying to make their make their way in the world make a career if you are the biologists who confirmed a sighting of mountain lions in the state that would be very good for you like you would be all over the news. John is calling from Bennington. So one thing I'll add we're talking about natural dispensers but talking with the conservation officer in the 1980s they recall going to a residence telling a person you can live here but your mountain lion can't. I don't see the hoaxes anymore at that level. I just stood there just a second and I came to a complete stop and then I ran away. We mentioned that one cat that was hit by a car where it has it that it was a male looking for me. Thanks for taking my call. No doubt in my mind it was. And the cougar embodies that. They absolutely do. So I think the point that I just want to get across is that there is a very strong sense this here in the and not region that there is that there is some sort of mountain lion population how large it is how extensive it is. I was at the Sentinel as a reporter there for about four years and during that time I probably wrote close to a half dozen stories or so on this topic including a lengthy feature at one point that in which I spoke to several people from around the banana region claimed to have seen mountain lions that at one time or another. I think as Pat was saying you know 35 to 50 pounds on a male be reasonable range whereas mountain lions you're up to 100 110 maybe even 130 pounds on a big male. So so in 2011 a mountain lion was killed in a car accident in Connecticut a car hit a mountain lion and killed it. Anytime at any HP broad dot org or subscribe to our podcast search Apple podcasts Google Play or stitcher for an HP bar exchange. Caller: I do. Novartis sold $1.1 billion worth of Gilenya in the U.S. last year, a 19% drop from 2021 that was caused in part by generic competition, according to . As wildlife biologists, wed be fascinated to say 'look look what was found in our state.'. After apparently trying unsuccessfully to get the young lion to leave, the man decided to shoot it. Caller: I have yeah. You know interactions are pretty unusual. Any sense of of whether or not mountain lions are sort of wary of more population dense areas like like the one he was describing Rick. By, March 2023 Fund Drive Rules and Regulations, Persons with disabilities who need assistance accessing NHPR's FCC public files, please contact us at publicfile@nhpr.org. So I want to start the program with a comment from someone who is not in the studio with us today. They are the same thing. But I was riding a mountain bike not far from my house. Really appreciate it. First off if the standard for an agency to go forward with the public and put out a press release that them outlines here their believers are going to say I told you they'd been here the whole time. Sam Evans-Brown: Well and I think and the last takeaway here is everyone I think probably agrees that any possible sightings that have been seen. And I was probably about a half a mile from downtown all village on the right. There wasn't a distinct subspecies the North American mountain lion is all is all one species and then you can find a genetically distinct South American subspecies. Kansas officials think a mountain lion recently roamed through Shawnee County. I just saw the head and the tail that was leaving. John thanks. Thank you. So what a neat experience. Sam Evans-Brown: Well first I want to sort of explain why what the theory is but then also throw a bit of cold water on it because I don't think there's much much logic behind it but essentially is that if fish and game were to acknowledge that there was a population of Mount lions in the state there's a chance that something like a listing under the federal Endangered Species Act might happen and then there'd be you know some they'd have to put a plan in place to protect the species there'd be you know restrictions put on development. The last catamount in Vermont is finally, officially, certainly dead. Patrick Tate: It became a very interesting investigation over time because it started becoming. I've had a number of people call up and say I found a scout in the woods and I want it DNA identified. So and so the idea that they can follow up on every individual sighting is just crazy right. We're gonna cue you up and bring into the program listeners in just a moment but I want to ask about the role that Mountain Lions play in the ecosystem we've been talking a lot about mountain lions traveling and being sort of hard to track as they move. SUE Morse naturalist and science director for the organization keeping track. Peter Biello: But clearly you know you're saying like hoaxes people who claim to have seen a mountain lion but knowingly have not or are appropriating photos taken elsewhere of legit mountain lion say out West where they people acknowledge that they exist certainly knowingly or unknowingly in this case the person who sent it to me said hey a friend of mine sent me this photo and said he took it on his back porch also. Because I mean as we've heard in the past 10 minutes like there's there's some disagreement or at least some some vagueness about what an actual mountain lion should appear like in the wild assuming we can even get close enough. It was a 140-pound male mountain lion, the first confirmed in Connecticut in more than 100 years. Do you get a lot of these these these things that end up being hoaxes. So do they. The exchange is a production of New Hampshire Public Radio. And that's this morning at 10:00 here on NH PR. According to the Nebraska Game and Parks report, a homeowner heard growling coming from underneath his porch while working outside. Mike you're on the air. Caller: I cannot recall or see the tail in my in my image of it. The unheralded hero of Apollo John Hubble the man who knew the way to the moon. Right. So for our scientists to do the lumping and whatnot. And so I just wanted to share my share my experience with you guys and it was pretty awesome to see if you get to see one albeit it was in the brush. Your support makes this news available to everyone. Rick shaking his head so Rick now correct me please. The experts' take on what happened last Saturday when a mountain lion killed one cyclist and injured another outside of Seattle. I found a second scat scent both to him. Rick van de Poll: Well I didn't. I hope she's listening and she had spoke to a lot of different people ended up having a couple of sightings of her alone without sort of by accident. Patrick Tate: Exactly I was gonna bring that up juvenile male of. And they were using all the habitat. They're just moving around freely. Peter Biello: So let's say Rick that it was confirmed that there that there are mountain lines here in New Hampshire. The one confirmed case, sometimes referred to as the " Connecticut Mountain Lion " happened in June 2011 when an SUV struck and killed a cougar in Milford. Artculos cientficos; Artculos de divulgacin; Menu Thank you. We'll also hear your stories if you have them again. Right. There's just one subspecies of North American mountain lion. Mountain lions remain an enigmatic animal for residents of New Hampshire, with New Hampshire Fish and Game reporting three to five sightings per week. So I don't understand really how how this this idea came to be but it is the main reason why folks believe that fishing game is is covering up the fact that there are mountain lions in the state again with no evidence. All they think it traveled north through Canada up you know crossed across the Great Lakes and then and then down again through New York State. I'm Peter Biello. So now what's going on. And Rick Van de Poll naturalist and founder of ecosystem management consultants of New England. And it was unmistakable. Peter Biello: What about the idea of tourism like us leaving aside the fact that it is not on the Endangered Species Act is it. However, dispersing western mountain lions have left evidence as close as Connecticut, Massachusetts and New York. They were able to do all that by genetics. It was determined that Mountain Lion came from the Dakotas across the Northern part of our country . To date most of the pictures that have been sent in have been bobcats and other species Ive received pictures of house cats. #4. And we want to know your stories if you have them 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7 or email exchange at an HP bar dot org we'll talk about conspiracy theories when we come back. Support for an age PR comes from you our listeners. Still, it's been over 100 years since the last mountain lion was killed east of the Mississippi, except for a patch of them down in Florida, where there are supposed to be 100 to 200 still living. But also I think it proves the opposite point which is that sometimes they're pretty secretive because all the way from Minnesota where the where was the first time was picked up on a game camera to New York. We want answers. 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