Footnote 25 The mythological cues of the Phaedrus also position the pharmakon as something which leads one astray, whether one is an Orithya or a Socrates, a Greek or an Egyptian: "one and the same suspicion envelops the book and the drug, writing and whatever works in an occult, ambiguous manner . The text is extremely subjective, open to interpretation and individual creativity as to what or whom the narrative is about. Through the study of philosophy, Socrates goes on to explain, one can turn his yearning after a lover into a quest for real truth—a higher purpose than simple physical gratification. Socrates Writing, Phaedrus, has this strange quality, and is very like painting; for the creatures of painting stand like living beings, but if one asks them a question, they preserve a solemn silence. Socrates [to Phaedrus]: . For the ancient Greeks, eros denoted both sexual pleasure and was the name of a god. Phaedrus Evidently. It is the same with written words. His explanation of choosing speech over text is two fold. And the same may be said of speeches. Socrates says that they must finally turn to the subject of "propriety and impropriety in writing." He tells Phaedrus an Egyptian myth he's heard. He it was that invented number and calculation, geometry and astronomy, not to speak of draughts and dice, and above all writing. It appears to reach its climax with one of the most memorable pieces of Platonic writing (the great myth of the chariot of the soul), only to go on to treat it as a starting-point for a dry discussion of what Socrates calls the 'art of words (logoi)'.What emerges at the end of this discussion, between Socrates . Phaedrus and Socrates discuss utilizing this manner through writing, but ultimately agree that writing fosters interaction with many ideas but dissuades the "actual learning" thereof. Socrates, Diderot, and Wolpert on Writing and Printing. Phaedrus challenges Socrates to compose a better speech and promises to erect golden statues at Delphi if the challenge can be met (235d). Such commentary views the dialogue in relation to the historical transition from orality to literacy. Plato, unlike Socrates, could and did read and write. As in so many other cases, he sets the agenda for the subsequent tradition. Socrates proceeds to emphasize the negative side of the pharmakon that is writing. Socrates Writing, Phaedrus, has this strange quality, and is very like painting; for the creatures of painting stand like living beings, but if one asks them a question, they preserve a solemn silence. The crux of the speech, as read by the disenchanted and ungodly Phaedrus, is a utilitarian argument for lovers to pursue sexual favors from non-lovers, and therefore to receive the most in return. The work presents a philosophical debate between Socrates and Phaedrus. Poets, Socrates whispers to Aschenbach, cannot reach knowledge without taking a sensual path, where they get fatally . J.M.C. PHAEDRUS: I was with Lysias, the son of Cephalus,l Socrates, and I am In very broad terms, this transition introduced profound changes to the structure of human thought: whereas a strictly oral culture seemed to require externalization of reflections, the . Through the study of philosophy, Socrates goes on to explain, one can turn his yearning after a lover into a quest for real truth—a higher purpose than simple physical gratification. Socrates did not write down any of his thoughts, however his dialogues were recorded by his student and protégé, the philosopher Plato (428 - 347 BCE). PHAEDRUS: That is most true. Socrates has a high affinity for hearing speeches and begs Phaedrus to repeat the speech for him. They begin to talk. It was the first time I didn't have to ask for a revision. A t first, a young and foolish Phaedrus agrees with Thamus. Among the ancient Egyptian gods, there was one called Theuth who discovered "number and calculation, geometry and astronomy, as well as the games of draughts and dice, and above all else, writing" (Phaedrus, 274d). Their discussion focuses on divine inspiration, soul, madness, and mastery of art. Plato, The Phaedrus - a dialogue between Socrates and Phaedrus written down by the pupil of Socrates, Plato, in approximately 370 BC. Socrates was found guilty and ultimately executed. In the book of Phaedrus, it is revealed that Socrates did not like writing claiming that writing did not represent a complete knowledge. Plato obviously saw value in preserving and passing down his ideas, or he would not have authored dialogues in the first place. One concern Socrates raises about writing is with respect to . [spring 399 Theaetetus] Prior to the action in the Theaetetus, a young poet named Meletus had composed a document . The word himeros for desire, passions, quite unusual in the dialogue (10 occurrences, out of which 4 are in the Phædrus and 3 more in the Cratylus), is used three times in a few lines (251c7, d4, e3) in the center of the central section of the middle part of the central speech of Socrates, to describe the effect of beauty on the soul, and one more time in the central section of the third part . including McCarthy-Nielsen, interpret the discussion of writing in Phaedrus. Tackling the topic of love was the initial subject that the two had taken into consideration. This text is NOT unique. Ewing 1 Brianna Ewing Professor Cody English 1CH 20 Sept. 2020 The Disparities Between Love and Lust Within Plato's Phaedrus, he presents the dialogue between Phaedrus and Socrates as they elaborate on the subjects of love and rhetoric. In Phaedrus, Socrates' argument is mainly centered on the dangers of written texts. Plato's discussions of rhetoric and poetry are both extensive and influential. "You are aware that the greatest and most influential statesmen are ashamed of writing speeches and leaving them in written . The myth, which involves an Egyptian king, Thamus, and Theuth (Thoth), the god of writing. In Phaedrus, Plato introduces readers to a dialogue that centres explicitly on the value of writing. are you going? Phaedrus By Plato Written 360 B.C.E Translated by Benjamin Jowett Persons of the Dialogue SOCRATES PHAEDRUS. The Phaedrus (/ ˈ f iː d r ə s /; Greek: Φαῖδρος, translit. Socrates, as expressed by Plato, refutes the false eloquence and proves that the rhetoric should be based on philosophy. Plato on Rhetoric and Poetry. Giving in to the heat, in a state of feverish half-slumber, Aschenbach continues to quote Phaedrus, this time in a mixture of harsh self-criticism, a lot of it imagined to come directly from Plato, through the voice of Socrates. . The offsprings of painting stand there as if they are alive, but if . The topic of the conversation was love, and the discussion mainly revolved around rhetoric, with the main subjects being erotic love and metempsychosis. Socrates's treatment of rhetoric in the Phaedrus emphasizes ethical problems of the orator's manipulation of the listeners, but these ethical concerns are founded on a metaphysical problem: the techniques of rhetoric, as they are applied by sophists and orators like Lysias, fall short of representing reality and thus fail to convey the truth. Asserting that what is shameful is not speechwriting itself, but bad speechwriting, Socrates raises the question of how we determine when speaking or writing is good or bad. and historically, that is, the writing of Socrates' student, Plato. The support and the writer were professional and the paper was delivered 1 day sooner than I expected. "I am a lover of knowledge, and the men who dwell in the city are my teachers, and not the trees or the country." . Written by Plato, a close disciple of Socrates, this text . Where have you been? Phaedrus. is concerned with establishing the principles of rhetoric.. The critique of writing in the Phaedrus has inspired a great deal of commentary with a historical focus. Walking around the country and providing conversations on just about whatever happens to them, the Phaedrus and Socrates walking conversation displays relevant matters and enlightening words. The Phaedrus Dialogue. Through this dialogue, Plato showcases many significant concepts to life including the different philosophies of love, the appropriate medium to truth, the . The Phaedrus is - like so many other dialogues of Plato's - one of a kind. Plato, from The Phaedrus - a dialogue between Socrates and Phaedrus written down by Plato, the pupil of Socrates, in approximately 370 BC. Don't plagiarize, get content from our essay writers! Phaedrus was a dialogue between Socrates who was Platos protagonist and Phaedrus who was an interlocutor in some talks (Nichols 137). The dialogue between Socrates and Phaedrus focuses on love, the art of rhetoric, and the figurative speech. 1358 Words6 Pages. Socrates spots a text of the speech hidden under Phaedrus's cloak and asks him to read it in the Arcadian shade of a plane tree. As Phaedrus and Socrates discuss contrasting views of love, madness, the soul, rhetoric, and writing, I got swept into their conversation. Phaedrus contains three speeches. In 399 BCE Socrates was tried by an Athenian jury on charges of (a) denying the existence of deities, (b) introducing new deities, and (c) corrupting the youth of Athens. Socrates. The concerns of writing arise after Socrates and Phaedrus have agreed on what constitutes rhetorical expertise. The same is true of written words. Socrates prefers the city to the countryside. Thus, the critique on writing is arguably not a digression, but rather part and parcel of Socrates' and Phaedrus' dialectic on speech and rhetoric. Through his spokes-charcter, Socrates, and the titular aristocrat Phaedrus, Plato introduces us to the problems he finds inherent in general writing (as separate from philosophical writing, as we will see later). The irony of Socrates's and Phaedrus's discussion about writing is that, of course, it takes place in a dialogue that's been written down. In reading this excerpt from The Phaedrus, which reports a dialogue between Socrates and Phaedrus, crucial to your understanding of what bothers Socrates about writing is Reading the Phaedrus, the idyllic imagery present throughout caught my eye.That imagery is here for a reason, and initially I thought that the location of the dialogue was meant to symbolize the nature/civilization divide present in much Platonic thinking, but I wonder if it is more complicated than that? [258e] Phaedrus You ask if we want to question them? SOCRATES: I cannot help feeling, Phaedrus, that writing is unfortunately like painting; for the creations of the painter have the attitude of life, and yet if you ask them a question they preserve a solemn silence. According to Socrates, writing arguments eliminates the chance of actively questioning the motives of writers. And yet understanding his remarks about each of these topics—rhetoric and poetry . Do we want to question Lysias about this, and anyone else who ever has written or will write anything, whether a public or private document, in verse or in prose, be he poet or ordinary man? Through this dialogue, Plato showcases many significant concepts to life including the different philosophies of love, the appropriate medium to truth, the . PHAEDRUS: My tale, Socrates, is one of your sort, for love was the theme which occupied us--love after a fashion: Lysias has been writing about a fair youth who was being tempted, but not by a lover; and this was the point: he ingeniously proved that the non-lover should be accepted It's not entirely known whether these are the words of Socrates, or Plato (speaking through a fictional character with the same name). Socrates, from Phaedrus and Letters VII and VIII, seems to think that spoken word holds great precedence over writing. This brings us to the spring and summer of 399, to Socrates's trial and execution. She is author of the best-selling books The Biggest Bluff (Penguin Press, 2020), The Confidence Game (Viking Press, 2016) and . The Phaedrus would in fact be an essentially metaphilosophic dialogue. At the end of the dialogue (and also in a couple of other dialogues), Socrates makes his famous rebuttal against writing: You know, Phaedrus, writing shares a strange feature with painting. It is set in the last hours prior to the death of socrates, and is plato's fourth and last dialogue to . The first movement includes three set speeches, one a written speech which claims to be by Lysias, the other two given impromptu by Socrates; the second then uses these speeches as the basis for a general discussion of rhetoric and of the value of writing as a medium plato-1-euthyphro-apology-crito-phaedo-phaedrus-translated-by-harold-north-fowler 2/4 Downloaded from www.hortonhillfarm.com on January 17, 2022 by guest Proofreading sets any writing apart from "acceptable" and makes it exceptional. Socrates coyly declines but, Phaedrus playfully threatens him first with force and then with something more persuasive viz., the threat of no longer engaging in discourse (236c-e). I have to pass on these quotes sent by one my Chaos and Complexity Seminar colleagues at the University of Wisconsin: Socrates on writing, from Phaedrus, 275a-b. Plato's, Phaedrus, is a conscious whirlwind of ideas, propositions, musings, and teachings. Plato was almost like a "fly on the wall" or a tape recorder, and one Maria Konnikova is a science journalist and professional poker player. for only $16.05 $11/page. In Plato's Phaedrus, Socrates calls into question the propriety and impropriety of writing. The trial of Socrates (399 BC) was held to determine the philosopher's guilt of two charges: asebeia against the pantheon of Athens, and corruption of the youth of the city-state; the accusers cited two impious acts by Socrates: "failing to acknowledge the gods that the city acknowledges" and "introducing new deities".. The painter's products stand before us as though they were alive. Unlike other services, these guys do follow paper instructions. [spring 399 Theaetetus] Prior to the action in the Theaetetus, a young poet named Meletus had composed a document . They say hi. Through the mouths of Socrates and Phaedrus he argues that rhetoric is only acceptable as an art when it is firmly based on the truth inspired by love, the common experience of true philosophic activity. A comment from Phaedrus on the supposed shamefulness of speechwriting--the art of the logographer--spurs Socrates's transition to a discussion of rhetoric and writing. The story is that in the region of Naucratis in Egypt there dwelt one of the old gods of the country, the god to whom the bird called Ibis is sacred, his own name being Theuth. Ewing 1 Brianna Ewing Professor Cody English 1CH 20 Sept. 2020 The Disparities Between Love and Lust Within Plato's Phaedrus, he presents the dialogue between Phaedrus and Socrates as they elaborate on the subjects of love and rhetoric. This brings us to the spring and summer of 399, to Socrates's trial and execution. One on love as a divine madness. Socrates goes on to compare a written text to a painting: You know, Phaedrus, that is the strange thing about writing, which makes it truly correspond to painting. Phaedrus. The Phaedrus is a written text. Socrates complaint about writing: It diminishes memory The Phaedrus (370 BC) is a dialogue between Socrates (the protagonist) and Phaedrus (the interlocutor). Most commentators divide Plato's writing into three major periods. souls, but, despite the Phaedrus' own critique of writing, reading such a dia logue may be a good way of working to attain it. His trial and … Plato: The Apology of Socrates Learn More. Plato wrote the Phaedrus that was a dialogue and discussion of philosophical issues between Socrates and Phaedrus. You would imagine that they had intelligence, but if you want to . Throughout his discussion with a colleague, Socrates insists that writing destroys memory and weakens the mind (Ong, 2002). governed by the laws of magic and not . A brief transition leads into the second part of the dialogue, in which Socrates and Phaedrus discuss writing, speaking, and rhetoric. SocRATES: Phaedrus, my friend! Using Lysias's speech as . [Headnote: In reading this excerpt from The Phaedrus which reports a dialogue between Socrates and Phaedrus, crucial to your understanding of what bothers Socrates about writing is knowing a bit about his history and his own philosophical method. "For this invention will produce forgetfulness in the minds of those who learn to use it, because they will not practice their . What label does Phaedrus give Socrates in the countryside? They decide to walk along a nature trail into the jungle to find a serene environment, where Phaedrus offers to read him the speech. One day, Theuth visited Thamus, King of Egypt, urging him… Socrates Writing, Phaedrus, has this strange quality, and is very like painting; for the creatures of painting stand like living beings, but if one asks them a question, they preserve a solemn silence. We know much more about Socrates and other ancient Greek figures because Plato did write, and because many of his texts have survived. Writing: The Self-Condem nation of the Written Word in Plato's Phaedrus RONNA BURGER City University of New1 York Graduate Center The central figure of the Platonic dialogues is a Socrates rendered "young and beautiful" through the art of writing.1 While the very existence of the dialogues betrays the Platonic act of writing, the pro- Walking around the country and providing conversations on just about whatever happens to them, the Phaedrus and Socrates walking conversation displays relevant matters and enlightening words. am going to take a walk outside the wall, for I have been sitting with And so it is with written words; you might think they spoke as if they had intelligence, but if you question them, wishing to know about their . PHAEDRUS: My tale, Socrates, is one of your sort, for love was the theme which occupied us - love after a fashion: Lysias has been writing about a fair youth who was being tempted, but not by a lover [erastes]; and this was the point: he ingeniously proved that the non-lover should be accepted rather than the lover. PHAEDRUS: Quite right. Socrates and Phaedrus Writing and speaking are two very different, yet extremely important activities to any educated person. And so it is with written words; you might think they spoke as if they had intelligence, but if you question them, wishing to know about their . Socrates is having a conversation with his young pupil, Phaedrus under a plane-tree, by the banks of the Ilisses. Socrates on the Forgetfulness that Comes with Writing Socrates (469-399 BCE) was a Greek Philosopher who thought and taught through argumentative dialogue, or dialectic. Unlike living, breathing discourse, writing can neither change its argument nor respond to criticism. He has just heard what he thinks is an amazing speech on love — eros — by the orator Lysias. Socrates, correcting his pupil, argues that it is simple-minded to believe that writing will impair a man's ability to comprehend and . We will write a custom Critical Writing on The Dialogue of Phaedrus: The Crises of Love and Inquiry specifically for you. text-only version is available for download. In the Phaedrus Plato(427-347 B.C.) Maybe Plato and Socrates are not quite as hostile against nature as we think they are. But if you question them, they maintain a most majestic silence. The text focuses on rhetoric and persuasion, but contains themes on metempsychosis, writing and love. Scene Under a plane-tree, by the banks of the Ilissus. Socrates is in Athens where he bumps into an acquaintance called Phaedrus. And where are 227 you going? The problem with this interpretation of Plato on writing is that it overlooks the fact that pedagogy is central to everything the Platonic Socrates says about both rhetoric and writing in Phaedrus; indeed, pedagogy is the key to recognizing the coherence of the dialogue. Addresses concerns about communication as a culture moves from orality to literacy. In this speech, Socrates and Phaedrus try to discuss issues about emotion and the divine world. Socrates presents the myth following a discussion of what forms of rhetoric and writing are pleasing to the gods. In addition, given that Plato was one of Socrates most devoted students, this act of speaking for/as Socrates can be likewise viewed within the context of the theme of lover and beloved given in "Phaedrus." If Socrates provided Plato with the means to the "divine truth" that he sought and about which he spent his life writing and . 810 certified writers online. Two composed and delivered by Socrates. In the Phaedrus, written circa 370 BCE, Plato recorded Socrates's discussion of the Egyptian myth of the creation of writing. Tackling the topic of love was the initial subject that the two had taken into consideration. The Phaedrus dialogue is one of the masterpieces of philosophical and artistic prose of Plato. The essential problem of writing is that it is a dead kind of speech. What else should one . In this particular quote from Plato's Phaedrus, Socrates is using a supposed dialogue between the Egyptian god Theuth (or Thoth), the inventor of writing, and Thamus, the king of Egypt, to explain to Phaedrus the dangers of writing, and the worrying effects Socrates thinks it has on human wisdom. From Plato's dialogue Phaedrus 14, 274c-275b: Twice in Plato's dialogues (Symposium 173b, Theaetetus 142c-143a), fact-checking with Socrates took place as his friends sought to commit his conversations to writing before he was executed. One composed by Lysias and read by Phaedrus to Socrates .
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